They’re like um I will place it on the ground cause this is a sig 320 and dropping is super bad for it and will go off for literally no reason( cops holster explodes )
"I'm not an expert. I merely have been shooting since birth, instructing for 10 years, and have pretty much fired every handgun manufactured in the last 50 years." Ah, Nightwood, that's precisely what an expert is. Expert level achieved.
Sig is stupid. They keep posting online when it would have been better if they just stfu because everything they post it just shines more light on their issues.
Yep, and they have more than enough defenders (heck there are even some in this comment section!), they could keep rolling along with it for quite some time.
@@jaegybombexactly. Both sides do make good points, but controversy pays bills in this community, and jumping onto the hate Sig bandwagon is the worst of the culprits. Many Glock fans and M9 fans are are still upset over how the military trials were handled and how Sig pulled everyone from under the rug with their rushed product for the lowest denominator. I own the Sig P320 and I want to root for this gun and I’m confident that NOW it is a safe firearm to handle and use…..but the way the company has been acting is quite stupid.
Glock was literally the original "unsafe" handgun when they first came out, according to several lawsuits. Do a Google search for "Glock leg" if you don't believe me.
Yep. Just bought a gen 5 Glock 26 MOS for my daily carry to replace my sig p365. Also have a p320 x compact that I’m going to sell. Glock and Walther have been my go to’s.
They sort of did, and the guns "going off" was SORT OF their fault. The early Gen 1 boxes had a peg that held the gun in place through the trigger guards, and there was negligent discharges as a result. Now, thats 100% OWNER negligence. But to be fair and play devils advocate, the safe action trigger was still a new concept to shooters, and that box design was a stupid combination. Its still not comparable to this drama with Sig, but Glock did have their ooops moment as well.
I think Sig would have been better off just doing a recall with the faulty pistols. What pisses people off is when they're being lied to and KNOW they're being lied to. Sig is making things harder on themselves than what it needs to be.
I think the problem is that they cannot actually fix the issue and their hands are tied because of that. It’s not something that can be recalled it’s an inherent flaw in the design of the gun and the only way to fix it is to redesign the gun and make something else
Sig is simply the new Boeing of the military machine...they're in all the right pockets and places, making all the right deals. Quality? Secondary consideration. The only entity less likely to admit fault than Sig...is the military.
If they were to make a “recall” then that would admit they’re flawed. Regardless they made a “voluntary upgrade” option to send back your p320 to upgrade your internals so it doesn’t go off uncommanded, sounds a bit like a recall though
So another piece of info. Sig had 2 “rolling changes” that were never really mentioned. Not part of the upgrade program, but fixed on guns after the issue was discovered. Old p320s had a spring on the lever which raised the firing pin block out of the way. This would get caked with carbon after a while, and was prone to being stuck in the up position, constantly pushing against the firing pin safety. Also, the two springs on the sear did not have defined channels on earlier models, so there was a chance they would get tangled. So firing pin block disengaged, sear springs tangled, this means your firing pin has little resistance on the sear and a clear path to the primer. This is most likely why we see “holster bump” discharges. Definitely look this up, people have taken pictures and written articles on it.
@@Larry-mk9rywondering that too. I have a basically new 320c 9 , old trigger (thicker one, non upgrade), but was made in April 2017. I love the gun though.
Agree with you completely? I had a 320 i sent back for the voluntary recall. Immediately sold it when it came back. It's not that i didn't trust Sigs fix. I did not trust Sig after the way they handled the recall that way.
Sold my P365 macro last week and replaced it with a Glock 26. Shoot the 26 better and it hides better on my body. I have 100% confidence in the Glock. After rust issues with magazines and the side, replaced trigger return springs and dead night sight I won’t be missing the macro
Sig’s military contract is, ironically, what’s putting them in this predicament. If it wasn’t for the contract, they could update the P320’s FCG and move on. But they can’t do that because they would have to replace all of the military’s M17s/M18s. Mind you, I don’t feel an ounce of sympathy for them, they pulled some major shadiness to get the military contract in the first place, so they reap what they sow.
And that’s the reason why this controversy is super important. If it was any other handgun it wouldn’t matter as much but because it’s the literal sidearm of the U.S. military, this handgun cannot face this kind of backlash
@@CREATEDBYDUSTINTODUSTYOURETURNAre you serious? It’s a very easy lookup. Sig did NOT pass the military trials as Sig fanboys claim. Multiple mid trial “fixes” that really didn’t fix anything long term. The white papers are out there. Look up Protraband and his videos. He did excellent investigative journalism to expose Sig for who they are and the 320 to what it is. To be fair, the military (government) did shady stuff too by allowing mid trial “fixes” to Sig that they didn’t allow other manufacturers because they already knew they could get them cheap. Because performance isn’t what the government is interested in. The lowest bidder is at the top of their list. Sig as a company is extremely shady. Starting with Ron Cohen.
Issues being true or not, the way Sig Sauer handled this issue publicly will make sure my money NEVER goes to Sig. And if you defend their actions, we will just agree to disagree.
Theres a RUclips channel “three p320s in a trenchcoat”. He shows the difference between 2 p320s where he applied pressure to the sear through the back of the slide and and showed that the internal failsafe failed 8 out 10 times and would activate the striker without a trigger pull on one of the pistols , while the other did not have issues coincidentally the one that didn’t have issues had visibly more rounds through the weapon so while it’s a small sample size it hints that it’s not wear related
FYI, the series 70 system may be rendered drop safe with a titanium firing pin combined with an extra power firing pin return spring. This quite common and comes with all Springfield Armoury 1911 pistols, along with several other manufacturers. The 1911 also has a "halfcock" notch cut into the hammer in the event of a sear engagement malfunction, so the hammer will not fall completely onto the slide and strike the firing pin if the trigger is not fully depressed. The p320, and most SAO striker fired actions do not have that "halfcock" feature, therefore a sear engagement failure will cause a full force release of the striker. The only thing preventing the striker from striking the primer of the cartridge is the firing pin channel block, which are not typically able to handle repeated failures due to fine tolerances anyway, but in the p320 that block is actually designed at a steep angle instead of the typical perpendicular angle that you see in most pistols and that p365 you have there. The unique p320 channel block is even less robust due to its angular engagement and this leads to its failure when the sear engagement fails, a bad combination. Thats the 30,000 foot view of the problem. I do disagree with you that they make other good products. I was with the original sig sauer before its current ceo pushed them out. He is also a convicted criminal in germany but was sent back due to covid hitting just before his sentencing. Both SIG of Switzerland and Sauer of Germany have cut ties several years ago. This is how SIGARMS Inc. took over the name brand and why we have SIG Sauer Inc. now, Sauer gmbh and SIG AB are out of the picture. I like you channel and your enthusiastic yet responsible attitude, hope you keep up your success.
As my generation would say…” Opinions are like assholes and Hondas… everybody has one”. And I highly respect yours. I see how you breakdown every aspect of what you’re reviewing. Precise and unbiased. You are one of only a few people that post videos that I regard and respect your opinion.
I own S&W striker fired guns, and a G40. Those guns have all been reliable and proven to be safe. They also have better FCG designs. Far less prone to fail in a manner causing a ND.
Well considering everything that make other than the VP9 is over 20 years old….. bs point for you ti make. You instead Just overpay for well made, but dated designs
The Protaband 320 videos were very informative. I'm also glad to see some more people realizing the 320 problem is a mixture of things, not just one, though I think one side is the heavier issue of the 2.
I absolutely love my 320. I don't shoot any gun as well as I do it. But it's getting shelved and maybe even sold. Even if I didn't believe I had a chance of being shot with it, I want no part of a company that makes us the problem instead of taking accountability for their mistakes.
I had two 320s, and I liked them both. As soon as Sig paid out in their first case I sold them both. No need to drag more risk into the gun ownership arena, there are too many good options out there. Thus a CZ P07 is on the nightstand.
29 дней назад+7
I personally met a local competition guy here in Lake Havasu. His 320 exploded. Seen his photos. His friend in California, had hers also explode within a week of his.
The scariest one was the competitive shooter who had his go off in his holster, and the only thing saving him was his benchmade knife (which was suitably destroyed in the process!). Luck that the round went off, destroyed the knife and ricochet'ed into the ground.
There's nothing wrong with mim, but you should be worried anytime a company claims to be selling made in America products but none of their offerings uses parts consistently from one country of origin
Would I carry a 320? No, absolutely not. A 365? Maybe. I cannot justify supporting sig, and I don’t shoot the p365 as well as others. Carry a g19, hellcat, and shield plus.
Thanks for covering this issue from a consumer perspective. Sig is doing nothing but CYA and damage control. I have 100% divested from Sig and will NEVER go back!! That being said, still an owner and believer in striker fired M&P 2.0! I’ve replaced my P365 with a Springfield Hellcat and now rest easy that it will go bang when commanded to do so and won’t when be carried appendix.
As a proud P320 owner, I'm greatly offended by this 😂. You made some great points my friend. The shadow fixes are a real thing. I had to replace a broken striker on my P320 and couldn't figure out which one to buy because there are 3 different SKUs for the same freaking striker. I also found that the spring between the old and new strikers were different in length. WHY SIG? WHY? Subtle changes like that without a clear explanation are just off-putting and signals 2 things: either you're hiding something OR you're such a mess you can't even produce the same parts with a basic level of consistency. That's super sketch!
Maybe it’s time to swallow some of that pride lol I hope you don’t carry this and if you haven’t watched portrabands sig break down video I seriously recommend it, I wouldn’t trust anything that company puts out anymore with my life after watching that video and seeing all the law suits
obviously these are some serious issues, doesnt mean i dont enjoy shooting it lol. At least thats me. You might own a p320 cuz youre just stuck with it lol😂 i dont own one just cuz i dont have the cash.
When choosing a polymer 10mm and hearing good things about the Sig X Ten (a 320 variant), all that came to mind was 320 problems and the endless repurposing of designs for new uses. And got the FN510, designed for its purpose and endlessly reliable. Glock would have done, but we each have our trigger preferences.
Based video Brett. I was gonna write about my catastrophic failure with my P320 but there’s plenty of those stories lol. My department just banned P320’s, but I was ahead of the curve and I’ve been carrying a G45 since.
I really appreciate your honest channel. I purchased Sig P320 when they first came out. When I became aware of "the problem" I said good-bye. Subsequently, I purchase a P365 for light use. I am okay with this one. Twenty years ago Sig and HK were considered best in class. Interesting how things change over time.
The thing that NOBODY is talking about is that a P365 is actually a dangerous design. Check my name. I am obviously an Sig lover, but the striker on the P365 deactivates the plunger for the firing pin safety. If the striker ever shears off it will still fire the best because it will deactivate the firing pin safety. It hasn’t happened yet, but …
This has been my exact concern about my 365 as well. There is a couple hours long video demonstrating that it will fire if the lug shears off. But the guy had to work really, REALLY hard to get that lug to break. Still could have been a better design.
My issue is that on many of the polymer grip modules where the fcc is seated, the metal insert in the polymer begins the pull out of the plastic. Many of my grip modules now have this gap between the slide and the frame that wasn't present when the gun was brand new. I only use metal grip modules because that issue doesn't seem to be present so far.
Your automotive example reminds me of the Toyota Prius that had issues with the throttle getting stuck. That would be like them igniting it and blaming the driver- even though it happened to multiple people.
Note- The NJ State Police sued SIG Sauer over "Classic" P229R 9x19mm. SIG blamed the training 9mm rounds. The State Troopers said the QC, P229s lacked the traditional quality of past P226s P229s.
A friend of my brother wanted to sell me his P320 at a firesale last year, really glad I passed. Considering trading out my P365 for something else. The way I see it, this is not just a trust issue it’s endemic of these major corporations going overseas for cheap labor and parts rather than investing in America and to me that’s unforgivable.
The P365 is an entirely different design. You'll break trigger return springs every, 5000 or so rounds maybe but there's other guns that will do the same thing. Other than that, the P365 is a reliable gun.
@@Osprey1994oh for sure, I’ve had minimal issues with my P365, but see the second half of my comment for the explanation why I’m considering getting rid of it.
I look at it like this: if there is a bowl of skittles in front of me, and I know that out of the hundreds in that bowl, a few of them are poisoned, I’m not taking the chance and eat any of them.
What they should have done is silently developed a new pistol, discontinue the P320, and then quietly settle any lawsuits for the next 10 years. By doing what they’re doing, they’re wading into very expensive waters.
P22x, P250, P938 all excellent choices. M-17&18 fine with safety. Sold my P320. Criterion is safe carry, safe clearing, etc. SAFETY even when you have nominal operator error.
Your assessment is 100% fair. I have a P320 X5 DH3 in my collection. Personally, I've never experienced a negligent discharge or out-of-battery discharge. I don't carry the weapon and don't keep it loaded when I am not shooting. It's a decently nice target pistol with an average trigger that feels nice in the hand. It's accurate. I also like Daniel Horner and, for that reason, decided to support the concept. However, the word "sloppy" is what comes to mind. My 320 frequently does not return to full battery with factory springs. This is a proven problem and not my imagination. I'm pretty sure Daniel Horner's P320 returns to full battery so mine should also (even if I can't shoot like him). As you pointed out in your video, we don't encounter these poor housekeeping issues with the PDP, M&P, etc. There's plenty of talented gunsmiths working at SIG. Can't imagine why these issues haven't been resolved.
My first pistol was a Glock G43X. I liked it, but I found it too difficult to conceal. I traded it for a S&W M&P Shield Plus. I had issues with the trigger safety not releasing on that gun. I sent it back to S&W and despite them "fixing" it, the issue persisted, so I sold it. That lead me to the SIG P365. It has been a great gun for me thus far, but I found I was shooting so many rounds through it that it was bruising my thumb. So to keep with a similar battery of arms, I bought a P320. I shoot both of them very well and haven't had any issues with them. But your comments are making me reconsider. I'm honestly not sure what else to go with at this point. I'd like both a full size and a compact pistol with the controls. Back to the drawing board, I guess. 😅
I have about 4000 rd through my P365XL. I have never had a functional issue with the pistol. That said I believe the people that have had issues. To your point of, “If you’re going to shoot tens of thousands of rounds through a P365, buy two”, I would agree, but frankly I would say the same about the M&Ps, Glocks, PDPs, Staccatos, etc that I own. If you’re shooting that much, you’re dwarfing the cost of the pistol in ammunition costs. Imo, it’s worth the peace of mind to have two pistols where one is a training pistol and one is shot to confirm function and then maintained regularly. It’s why I have 2 Glock 19s, both set up the same. While seemingly much more rare than with SIG, I’ve had and seen others have parts breakages with other pistols at relatively low round counts (I had the striker on one of my PDPs break at 1900 rd). Many years ago I read an article by the late Todd Green where he recommended the same 2 gun solution, even with classic line SIG hammer fired pistols, and it seemed like good advice.
@@davidtadlock2238 no problem. I think there are a lot of people thinking about how the designs compare. The P320 is always going to be a bit of a kludge in that it’s a striker fired system put into a pistol that wasn’t designed for it originally.
Just imagine just seeing all these Sig videos this week and you've been appendix carrying a P320 for years... 😅 (U.S. military have ample documentation that the P320 fired and injured some servicemen even with the thumb safety on and inside the holster.)
I don’t like that lately Sig seems to put out guns too early, leaving the first gen consumers to be the beta testers, and subsequently fixing them later. This happened with that 320 and 365. I made my comment before the end of your video. Glad to hear you covered the 365 as well. There are too many other options that are reliable and don’t have these issues. I don’t think I’d ever trust one for an EDC. You even called us beta testers, too!
1911's aren't drop safe, however, they have to land muzzle down which is a bit "safer" than the gun going "pop" while pointed in the general direction of the guy who dropped it. Titanium firing pins and stronger firing pin springs will mitigate this a bit, which is what Springfield did to their old Mil-spec guns (and probably still does) to make that distance about 12 ish ft instead of shoulder height. I'm sure most of the '70 series 2011's do similar.
I disagree with the P365 being plagued with issues, but the P320 definitely has an issue that Sig has not figured out. P365 can break the trigger return spring, but it's not the only gun that can break that part inside of 5-10k rounds. I worked at a range, and the P365 was one of the most popular guns. I knew 3 with 15k+, one with 24k, and he one I built went through 3.5k last year. I would tell anyone who is unsure about the P365, just buy a Shield + or G43X/48.
The big problem with the trigger bar spring breaking is that it renders the gun almost dead. You can flip it upside down and shake it and get the bar to catch and release the sear if you work at it. Contrast that to a Glock. If you break the spring in that almost nothing changes because the striker spring returns the trigger.
It's less about the P365 (which is arguably a vastly superior gun to the 320) being a turd...but the fact that it's linked to Sig, and they're absolute turds.
@@Mk16-bx3vi yessir, I used to be a data analyst for a miller/coors distributor in the redneck areas of Florida during the height of it. PBR jumped 20% in a month in our area and coors was up nearly 60%. Bud was down 22% nationally, but that includes liberal cities- in red counties, it was down more like 60-70%, even with crazy sales and BOGOs
Can’t resolve an issue when you don’t believe there is one. Like trying to get an alcoholic help when they don’t believe they have a drinking problem. Lol
I'm not so sure they don't believe there is one. I think it's more about trying to avoid acknowledging it to keep themselves free to argue they're not liable in ongoing lawsuits or future ones.
Huge sig guy here. I own several p320s. But I landed at the same conclusion. No effin way will I appendix carry a p320. Too bad, such good shooters otherwise.
The US M17/18 has a manual safety for crying out loud. None of the negligent discharge crap should have anything to do with them if they are using their safeties. There are US soldiers that openly prefer it to the M9. I have always been the camp of manual safeties for any single action trigger. If folks used manual safeties then there would not be any of these problems. But when you have folks carrying a single action pistol around in carry condition zero you are just asking for trouble no matter how safe you think you are or claim to be. Not even Jeff Cooper recommended carrying in carry condition zero. Carry condition zero is the problem. Not the guns. That is what I think and always have. If you are adamant and don't want a manual safety then get a double action being a double action/single action or double action only. I think it should be a gun industry standard that all single action only pistols both revolver and auto have manual safeties. If folks don't want to use them then that is on them to bear the liability. I am sick of folks always blaming the gun for their carry condition. Note: The P320 used by law enforcement and civilians has no manual safety and is a single action striker pistol and these are where the majority of complaints come from. The military M17/18 version has a manual safety and the only complaints are from those troops not using the safety. Not even the folks of the old west carried their single action Army .45Colt revolvers cocked in their holsters but that is what they are doing today with these pre-cocked single action striker pistols. I don't own a P320 but the nagging question is this, How many of these new discharges are from P320s that have not been upgraded since the initial trigger recall? Any hard numbers? The military M17/18 has a manual safety so the military has no excuse. This problem goes beyond the P320 and its now being brought out into the light of day. There are videos of Glocks going off in the pants when something snagged on the trigger so this is not a problem of just one manufacturer. The problem is the carry condition, not the gun. There are folks white washing a dangerous carry condition that is causing negligent discharges and blaming the gun. Same old, same old. A lot of folks are going to have to face some uncomfortable facts about how they carry their gun. Like I said, I am sick of folks blaming the gun no matter what brand it is for their carry condition. The liars and deniers will face the course of nature and nature will take its course.
The newer P365s generally exhibit a lot less striker drag along the primers, which indicates that Sig changed more than just the striker material. Probably some of the springs as well. I still occasionally carry my P365 in the summer because it’s so concealable and has been 100% reliable through 700 or so rounds, but my main carry now is a Shield Plus.
@ The problem was that the striker tip was in contact with the primer while the cases were being ejected. I don’t see how a minor modification of the striker tip could’ve made that much of a difference.
Car reference brings to mind the Ford Pinto. They designed it with the gas tank and a place where if it was hit too hard from the rear it would explode.
I own a P365 AXG Legion, which has been totally solid and reliable. However, because of Sig's recent press releases concerning the P320, I will never purchase another Sig - ever.
Once again, another excellent video-thank you for continuing to share such valuable insight. Unlike you, I’m new to firearms and will be purchasing my first pistol in the next week or so. Initially, I was encouraged to consider the SIG P320 by someone who carries one as a duty weapon. Given the nature of my profession, data and risk assessment are paramount, so I began researching the P320 extensively. It didn’t take long before I encountered numerous discussions about its potential for unintentional discharge. As a new gun owner, this was very concerning-not only for my personal safety but also for those around me. I’m committed to mitigating risk in all forms, and owning a firearm demands the highest level of responsibility. More importantly, my wife has a deep-seated fear of guns due to a traumatic experience in her childhood-her father accidentally shot himself in the hip. She was hesitant about me owning a firearm to begin with, so it would be both careless and inconsiderate for me not to prioritize safety and reliability above all else. I never want to be in the position of hearing, “I told you so. I begged you not to get a gun.” After months of research, I ultimately decided to purchase a Staccato C2. Unlike the P320, I found no credible concerns regarding unintentional discharges or reliability-only comments about its price point. My decision to go with the Staccato was made prior to watching your videos on the P320 and the Staccato P, but hearing your thoughts on both only reaffirmed my choice. Your insights served as the final reassurance, and I truly respect your perspective. Thank you again for the content you provide. It has made a real impact on how I approach this important responsibility.
My dad has a P320 and we’ve had no issues. It’s mostly a range and home defense gun. I have mostly Smith & Wesson. M&p 2.0 metal, shield plus, and just added bodyguard 2.0. Along with my 442 I’m good.
You do understand how this works right? You have no issues until you do. In this case, that issue is your gun going off uncommanded and shooting yourself or someone else...and then you go to jail or the hospital. The fact you mentioned having it as a home-defense gun is even more alarming.
@@oskar66612.5 million sigs sold over 11 years We estimate 100 cases of sigs going off, most were early, some are negligence, some valid. Regardless, your chance of your sig going off by itself based on the stats. 0.00004% Over the course of 11years and 2,500,000 pistols. Your choice.
Love the channel man! I agree about the P320 but the P365 is completely different and doesn’t have any issues of “just going off.” I have 2 P365’s (XL and Spectre Comp) and I have had 0 issues with both through thousands of rounds. On the other hand, I’ve owned 2 Glocks (42 and 43X) and both of them had malfunctions. The 42 had to go back to Glock after nonstop malfunctions. Bottom line is, TEST YOUR FIREARM thoroughly before carrying it and trusting it with your life. Doesn’t matter the brand
On December 10th 2023 I rented a PDP, a VP9 and p320 AXG Legion. I just didn’t care for the PDP, I went wanting to love the VP9 but every 5 rounds it failed to eject, and I loved the AXG. Obviously it was the most expensive but I bought a new one and have around 3K rounds thru it without a single failure in any way no matter the ammo. After that I started daily carrying a xmacro comp with Icarus precision aluminum grip, have around 2k rounds and not a single issue. I hope I don’t lose my junk carrying appendix but I do all day everyday so I do trust it. I hate that anyone has had problems and I’m only one person but that’s my story.
@@gracedagostino5231 to be honest, I don’t remember exactly, I just didn’t shoot it as well as the VP9 and the AXG. I really do love the feel of the VP9 and I shot it well but I consistently had issues with the rental. Maybe I would’ve bought a new and never experienced it again, I still may get one some day. But the sig, for me, outperformed, felt the best and looked the pretty badass
@@tizben so far it’s great for what it is. I’m fast with it, it conceals so easy and I know I’ve got a ton of rounds if I ever need them. I do worry about longer term reliability because I do train with it hard
@@ShaneAJWoolf Yes could have just been the VP9 rental, because HK is usually very well made, and reliable. They don’t put out anything bad, as they test guns over and over before released. I have an HK P2000sk.
I had one of the early P320’s (fixed for drop safety), but sold it recently because of the in-holster discharges. I’m usually with family when shooting and just didn’t want to chance it even though I’ve not had any issues with it. I still have a P365 that I plan on keeping, but have switched to S&W for nightstand and edc.
I have a Sig 320 Spector Comp, a 365 and a 320 Compact. LOVE all three for different reasons. All of these are newer and "revised" to be safe? I've had ZERO issues with any of them and as I said, love them and the way they shoot. But, there is SO MUCH hate for sig now I'm somewhat embarrassed to mention them. Obviously I do NOT drop my guns, use exceptional-trusted holsters and am extremely gun safe. But...still...loosing sleep over this and have anxiety carrying them now. I feel they're safe but cant escape this. Really sucks!!!
SIG refused to admit there was a drop safe issue, then issued a fix for it. If there wasn't an issue, what did they fix? That's my problem with SIG. They have no credibility.
Bullets going into the ground can still mean consequences. Ricochets and fragmenting of bullets is not a good thing and can still cause injury. Firing pin blocks, whether for striker fired or hammer fired pistols, were developed and exist for a reason. I still carry 2011s, but it’s a fact about the design that I don’t ignore and does make other guns more appealing to me in that regard.
Regarding bullets firing into the ground: I agree with Brett that it is much safer - as long as your not on a 2nd/3rd/etc floor lol. Like you're on a 2nd floor apartment and you drop your 2011 in the manner described. "Whoops! My bad! Sorry!" 😂 (I still carry my Bul 2011, just humorous to think about)
I own a West Germany built Sig P226, IMHO that was their pinnacle of craftsmanship. Also own 2 P229's. Excellent pistols with thousands of rounds through them. I also am a firearms instructor and CRSO, and while I've never had anyone in my presence have a 320 unintentionally discharge, I've seen too many people with "issues" with the 320, that I would not allow them on my range or for training.
I work at a VA MC. One of our VA Police officers told me they were getting P 320s as their new issued firearm. I asked about the ND issues that the P320 has had and he told me (to his knowledge) those were first generation P 320s that were having those issues and the VA had purchased Gen 3 P 320s. IDK, I am a dozen steps below you in the expertise field so I'm just throwing out what I was told.
I am currently selling both of my 320’s on consignment. Too much smoke not to have a fire, and Sig is handling this as if they want the nightmare to continue.
I agree with you 100%, I have 2 early production p320s (p320 Compact & p320 Sub Compact). Both were sent back to Sig for the "voluntary upgrade". I've not had any problems with either gun, but I don't trust them. They are locked in my safe and there they will stay. In watching "Sig Mechanics" with Edmond narrating, I can see the extremely close tolerances with these parts crammed into a very small small space (Sig used the p250 instead of starting with a "clean sheet"). Yep, p220, p226, p229, p210 and the Sig 322 (22 LR)...got 'em & love shooting them. But I carry a Glock model 26 & Glock model 45. I'm recalling Chuck Taylor's multi decade review\torture of a Glock 17 or 19. Chuck has passed away, but the last round count was some where around 300,000 rounds with every "malfunction" explained and every part exchange explained. I think he wrote for Gun World. Look up Chuck Taylor Glock Torture Test and go from there.
Never liked the p320, you couldn't give me one. The p229, 226, 220 are excellent and are the only ones I trust. Sig is not the great company it once was and that's a shame.
The American p22X guns are good, arguably much more durable than the older German folded slides for sure. They just tried to save too much money by forgoing test firing that would identify “from birth” issues. Some of the mim parts can be meh but mostly hold up great as well
Great analysis and critical thinking. We all need to be asking the question “Why arent we see this happen at a similar rate with other similar brands of pistols?”
Because the 320 was a sketchy ass rush job of a pistol design, modifying a P250 into something new...by a sketchy company cutting every corner possible.
I am pretty invested in the p365 multiple holsters tons of magazines I think I am going to stay with the p365 family. I am 75% sure I am buying a fuse although I am also going to test drive a Smith & Wesson
First, I appreciate you mentioning Glock grenading. Most people will not mention Glock + negative and try to act as if the exploding barrels and other issues they've had never happened.
I was skeptical for the longest time until an experienced competitor had a discharge during a match.. at the command “shooter ready?!” Then a bang… lol. The320 was just sitting there in a competition holster competition holster with no hands on it. It happened again at next match.. same shooter. Not sure exactly the story, but probably the same. I’m now convinced. No Sig Striker fired for me.
@ at yes the government. Because they are so trustworthy. And let’s be real I’ve heard from MANY military people that they aren’t exactly proficient with a pistol. It’s user error. Try again.
@@PTSD_Karma So, I'm assuming you haven't watched the Protraband video...got it...(news flash, it contains a dozen videos of 320's going off in peoples holsters...)
@@oskar6661the guy that was awarded 11m says he pulled the trigger while holstering his P320 into his sweatpants. It's literally in the lawsuit documents. The other police officer admitted he pulled the trigger and others admit the still use the 6300 safariland holster which is NOT made for the P320. The lady's P320 was holstered in her purse and her keys set the firearm off as it slide into the under side of the trigger guard on the holster. Most of these discharged are officers that don't train. My neighbor is a LEO and he even told me most LEOs don't even train with their Glock or P320s. He told me they can't hit shit past 10 yards.
I sold my p320 .40 last year and got a CZ do no regret lol. I love my 226 and 229 but thats the line for me. Sig needs to design a brand new polymer full size.
You make good sense to me.
If it makes sense to you, then I’d say it passes the ultimate “common sense” test. 😂 Thanks for stopping by, Sensei!
Dad has spoken. Everyone go to your rooms.
Legend has it...
Of course he does hickok, my boy's wicked smaht!
Hickok speaks and I listen
Police: Drop your gun! Drop your gun.
Criminal: its a p320 you SURE ABOUT THAT!
😂😂😂😂😂
Im glad we can joke about a serious conversation 😂 some ppl needa let loose a little
They’re like um I will place it on the ground cause this is a sig 320 and dropping is super bad for it and will go off for literally no reason( cops holster explodes )
A firearms manufacturer calling you “anti gun” for not buying their product is a huge red flag
they wouldnt ship you an "uncompliant" magazine in your gun, but youre an infringer if you dont want to shoot your nuts off accidently
Like saying you’re un American for not buying a Tesla.
just do not buy one they happy and your safe
If sig doesn’t send me a free P226 Legion they’re racist
I don't blame them. They are sick of all these dumb people saying the P320 is unsafe and acting like leftists.
"I'm not an expert. I merely have been shooting since birth, instructing for 10 years, and have pretty much fired every handgun manufactured in the last 50 years." Ah, Nightwood, that's precisely what an expert is. Expert level achieved.
That’s the type of expert whose opinion I respect.
Sig investigated itself and found no wrongdoing…
Sounds like when police investigate their own crimes
Sig is stupid. They keep posting online when it would have been better if they just stfu because everything they post it just shines more light on their issues.
Kinda like the loudest one in the room is the biggest Pu__y
Yep, and they have more than enough defenders (heck there are even some in this comment section!), they could keep rolling along with it for quite some time.
They’ve dug their hole too deep
When both sides are shouting it's hard for new people to tell which side is nonsense sometimes.
@@jaegybombexactly. Both sides do make good points, but controversy pays bills in this community, and jumping onto the hate Sig bandwagon is the worst of the culprits. Many Glock fans and M9 fans are are still upset over how the military trials were handled and how Sig pulled everyone from under the rug with their rushed product for the lowest denominator.
I own the Sig P320 and I want to root for this gun and I’m confident that NOW it is a safe firearm to handle and use…..but the way the company has been acting is quite stupid.
Glock has never had to publish a website insisting their guns don't go off by themselves.
Glock was literally the original "unsafe" handgun when they first came out, according to several lawsuits. Do a Google search for "Glock leg" if you don't believe me.
Yep. Just bought a gen 5 Glock 26 MOS for my daily carry to replace my sig p365. Also have a p320 x compact that I’m going to sell. Glock and Walther have been my go to’s.
@@TheWolf92no love for S&W?
They sort of did, and the guns "going off" was SORT OF their fault. The early Gen 1 boxes had a peg that held the gun in place through the trigger guards, and there was negligent discharges as a result. Now, thats 100% OWNER negligence. But to be fair and play devils advocate, the safe action trigger was still a new concept to shooters, and that box design was a stupid combination. Its still not comparable to this drama with Sig, but Glock did have their ooops moment as well.
striker is only 1/ 2 set pulling trigger moves it to full then released
It's no coincidence that issues that plagued Kimber are now with Sig. Cohen is the common denominator.
Cohen was also responsible for getting Sig Germany shut down.
You don't saaaaaay?
Kimber no longer has any issues. I was wondering what changed.
Cohen also got Sig Germany shut down.
Kimber has never really recovered from their Series II debacle.
Y’all hating on SIG. yet they are the only company supplying civilians with hand grenades.
😂❤
Autonomous
I'm dying!!!🤣🤣🤣
Fair point to ya
They're advanced grenades with self-pulling pins, imagine the fun!!!
This screams "if you hate pineapple on pizza, then you hate pizza"
Pineapple pizza is amazing and anyone who disagrees is just literally stupid
@@sunlight-sky151 The key is to use real pineapple, not parts of a pine 2x4 and some apple.
I think Sig would have been better off just doing a recall with the faulty pistols. What pisses people off is when they're being lied to and KNOW they're being lied to. Sig is making things harder on themselves than what it needs to be.
The bigger problem with a recall is the fact that the P320 is issued to the US military (and others).
I think the problem is that they cannot actually fix the issue and their hands are tied because of that. It’s not something that can be recalled it’s an inherent flaw in the design of the gun and the only way to fix it is to redesign the gun and make something else
Sig is simply the new Boeing of the military machine...they're in all the right pockets and places, making all the right deals. Quality? Secondary consideration. The only entity less likely to admit fault than Sig...is the military.
If they were to make a “recall” then that would admit they’re flawed. Regardless they made a “voluntary upgrade” option to send back your p320 to upgrade your internals so it doesn’t go off uncommanded, sounds a bit like a recall though
So another piece of info. Sig had 2 “rolling changes” that were never really mentioned. Not part of the upgrade program, but fixed on guns after the issue was discovered. Old p320s had a spring on the lever which raised the firing pin block out of the way. This would get caked with carbon after a while, and was prone to being stuck in the up position, constantly pushing against the firing pin safety. Also, the two springs on the sear did not have defined channels on earlier models, so there was a chance they would get tangled. So firing pin block disengaged, sear springs tangled, this means your firing pin has little resistance on the sear and a clear path to the primer. This is most likely why we see “holster bump” discharges. Definitely look this up, people have taken pictures and written articles on it.
@@Larry-mk9rywondering that too. I have a basically new 320c 9 , old trigger (thicker one, non upgrade), but was made in April 2017. I love the gun though.
Agree with you completely? I had a 320 i sent back for the voluntary recall. Immediately sold it when it came back. It's not that i didn't trust Sigs fix. I did not trust Sig after the way they handled the recall that way.
Sold my P365 macro last week and replaced it with a Glock 26. Shoot the 26 better and it hides better on my body. I have 100% confidence in the Glock. After rust issues with magazines and the side, replaced trigger return springs and dead night sight I won’t be missing the macro
Great choice. The Glock 26/27 is the best EDC on the market.
I have both, bought the 26 new in 2007. Great gun, but a brick compared to my OG 365. Longer, thicker, heavier. Just my opinion.
I’ll stick with my 21 year old Sig P226.
Barely legal age
@@jason200912Barely legal is 18 you Nimrod
I’ll stick with products from companies who aren’t shit
I like the p226 but it's over spring and double taps the RSA spring causes muzzle to dive down
@Jay-od7uj there's a custom spring and recoil rod from dpm if you want something that has a very smooth and light muzzle climb
Sig’s military contract is, ironically, what’s putting them in this predicament. If it wasn’t for the contract, they could update the P320’s FCG and move on. But they can’t do that because they would have to replace all of the military’s M17s/M18s.
Mind you, I don’t feel an ounce of sympathy for them, they pulled some major shadiness to get the military contract in the first place, so they reap what they sow.
What major shadiness did they pull.........
And that’s the reason why this controversy is super important. If it was any other handgun it wouldn’t matter as much but because it’s the literal sidearm of the U.S. military, this handgun cannot face this kind of backlash
@@justinkprydeit been had issues not taking care of just letting them add up
@@CREATEDBYDUSTINTODUSTYOURETURNAre you serious? It’s a very easy lookup. Sig did NOT pass the military trials as Sig fanboys claim. Multiple mid trial “fixes” that really didn’t fix anything long term. The white papers are out there. Look up Protraband and his videos. He did excellent investigative journalism to expose Sig for who they are and the 320 to what it is. To be fair, the military (government) did shady stuff too by allowing mid trial “fixes” to Sig that they didn’t allow other manufacturers because they already knew they could get them cheap. Because performance isn’t what the government is interested in. The lowest bidder is at the top of their list. Sig as a company is extremely shady. Starting with Ron Cohen.
M18 is different, army insisted on additional safety and some redesign
Didn’t know sig was such a shitty company. I like my p365 but going forward I will avoid sig products
if this is your first time hearing about this... the rabbit hole is very deep.
@ I’ve heard about the p320 issues and p365 issues in the beginning but I’m just learning they never made things right with the customers
I have a P226 Legion and X Macro. Love both, but will stay away from the 320.
Yeah same. They clearly fixed the firing pin safety when they designed the 365 . Still a scummy company i refuse to support anymore
Only Sig I'll ever buy is their steel hammer guns. Their attempt is the polymer market has been disappointing.
P320 = Ford Pinto
When you hit it on the back, it explodes
Issues being true or not, the way Sig Sauer handled this issue publicly will make sure my money NEVER goes to Sig. And if you defend their actions, we will just agree to disagree.
I feel the same way 👍
That humble intro tho 👀
I just like to make my p365s look pretty and keep them in the safe, pretty calm about that 😅
@@kenjihiten Hey, the P365s are great! Just have to keep an eye on that trigger spring at 2k+ rounds… Thanks for the support, Kenji! 🙌
Theres a RUclips channel “three p320s in a trenchcoat”. He shows the difference between 2 p320s where he applied pressure to the sear through the back of the slide and and showed that the internal failsafe failed 8 out 10 times and would activate the striker without a trigger pull on one of the pistols , while the other did not have issues coincidentally the one that didn’t have issues had visibly more rounds through the weapon so while it’s a small sample size it hints that it’s not wear related
@@Xrobberyx I just saw that a couple days ago. I’m glad he shared that 👍
FYI, the series 70 system may be rendered drop safe with a titanium firing pin combined with an extra power firing pin return spring. This quite common and comes with all Springfield Armoury 1911 pistols, along with several other manufacturers. The 1911 also has a "halfcock" notch cut into the hammer in the event of a sear engagement malfunction, so the hammer will not fall completely onto the slide and strike the firing pin if the trigger is not fully depressed. The p320, and most SAO striker fired actions do not have that "halfcock" feature, therefore a sear engagement failure will cause a full force release of the striker. The only thing preventing the striker from striking the primer of the cartridge is the firing pin channel block, which are not typically able to handle repeated failures due to fine tolerances anyway, but in the p320 that block is actually designed at a steep angle instead of the typical perpendicular angle that you see in most pistols and that p365 you have there. The unique p320 channel block is even less robust due to its angular engagement and this leads to its failure when the sear engagement fails, a bad combination. Thats the 30,000 foot view of the problem. I do disagree with you that they make other good products. I was with the original sig sauer before its current ceo pushed them out. He is also a convicted criminal in germany but was sent back due to covid hitting just before his sentencing. Both SIG of Switzerland and Sauer of Germany have cut ties several years ago. This is how SIGARMS Inc. took over the name brand and why we have SIG Sauer Inc. now, Sauer gmbh and SIG AB are out of the picture. I like you channel and your enthusiastic yet responsible attitude, hope you keep up your success.
As my generation would say…” Opinions are like assholes and Hondas… everybody has one”. And I highly respect yours. I see how you breakdown every aspect of what you’re reviewing. Precise and unbiased. You are one of only a few people that post videos that I regard and respect your opinion.
I buy HK products out of the gate pay more but have tremendous confidence.
👆🏻
I also only buy HK and Glock now.
I’ve considered picking up a VP9. But I always end up getting other guns b
I own S&W striker fired guns, and a G40. Those guns have all been reliable and proven to be safe. They also have better FCG designs. Far less prone to fail in a manner causing a ND.
Well considering everything that make other than the VP9 is over 20 years old….. bs point for you ti make. You instead
Just overpay for well made, but dated designs
The Protaband 320 videos were very informative. I'm also glad to see some more people realizing the 320 problem is a mixture of things, not just one, though I think one side is the heavier issue of the 2.
I absolutely love my 320. I don't shoot any gun as well as I do it. But it's getting shelved and maybe even sold. Even if I didn't believe I had a chance of being shot with it, I want no part of a company that makes us the problem instead of taking accountability for their mistakes.
I had two 320s, and I liked them both. As soon as Sig paid out in their first case I sold them both. No need to drag more risk into the gun ownership arena, there are too many good options out there. Thus a CZ P07 is on the nightstand.
I personally met a local competition guy here in Lake Havasu. His 320 exploded. Seen his photos. His friend in California, had hers also explode within a week of his.
The scariest one was the competitive shooter who had his go off in his holster, and the only thing saving him was his benchmade knife (which was suitably destroyed in the process!). Luck that the round went off, destroyed the knife and ricochet'ed into the ground.
Problem with the 320 is not only is it a bad design but its a bad design that utilizes shit quality foreign made MIM parts.
This👆🏻💯
Sir, I have it on good authority from Sig that all of their parts are made in the USA!
@@oskar6661 I think they HAVE to be since they have the military contract.
There's nothing wrong with mim, but you should be worried anytime a company claims to be selling made in America products but none of their offerings uses parts consistently from one country of origin
@@oskar6661Not true. Order some OEM and their packaging will have their country of origin. Their parts are made alien a few different countries.
Would I carry a 320? No, absolutely not. A 365? Maybe. I cannot justify supporting sig, and I don’t shoot the p365 as well as others. Carry a g19, hellcat, and shield plus.
Thanks for covering this issue from a consumer perspective. Sig is doing nothing but CYA and damage control. I have 100% divested from Sig and will NEVER go back!!
That being said, still an owner and believer in striker fired M&P 2.0!
I’ve replaced my P365 with a Springfield Hellcat and now rest easy that it will go bang when commanded to do so and won’t when be carried appendix.
As a proud P320 owner, I'm greatly offended by this 😂.
You made some great points my friend. The shadow fixes are a real thing. I had to replace a broken striker on my P320 and couldn't figure out which one to buy because there are 3 different SKUs for the same freaking striker. I also found that the spring between the old and new strikers were different in length. WHY SIG? WHY? Subtle changes like that without a clear explanation are just off-putting and signals 2 things: either you're hiding something OR you're such a mess you can't even produce the same parts with a basic level of consistency.
That's super sketch!
Maybe it’s time to swallow some of that pride lol I hope you don’t carry this and if you haven’t watched portrabands sig break down video I seriously recommend it, I wouldn’t trust anything that company puts out anymore with my life after watching that video and seeing all the law suits
obviously these are some serious issues, doesnt mean i dont enjoy shooting it lol. At least thats me. You might own a p320 cuz youre just stuck with it lol😂 i dont own one just cuz i dont have the cash.
When choosing a polymer 10mm and hearing good things about the Sig X Ten (a 320 variant), all that came to mind was 320 problems and the endless repurposing of designs for new uses. And got the FN510, designed for its purpose and endlessly reliable. Glock would have done, but we each have our trigger preferences.
Based video Brett. I was gonna write about my catastrophic failure with my P320 but there’s plenty of those stories lol. My department just banned P320’s, but I was ahead of the curve and I’ve been carrying a G45 since.
Signs voluntary upgrade was a taken out of Remington's 700 book.
I really appreciate your honest channel. I purchased Sig P320 when they first came out. When I became aware of "the problem" I said good-bye. Subsequently, I purchase a P365 for light use. I am okay with this one. Twenty years ago Sig and HK were considered best in class. Interesting how things change over time.
The thing that NOBODY is talking about is that a P365 is actually a dangerous design. Check my name. I am obviously an Sig lover, but the striker on the P365 deactivates the plunger for the firing pin safety. If the striker ever shears off it will still fire the best because it will deactivate the firing pin safety.
It hasn’t happened yet, but …
This has been my exact concern about my 365 as well. There is a couple hours long video demonstrating that it will fire if the lug shears off. But the guy had to work really, REALLY hard to get that lug to break. Still could have been a better design.
Meh.. over 8,000 rounds on my 365 I don't see what the issue is what he's talking about.
My issue is that on many of the polymer grip modules where the fcc is seated, the metal insert in the polymer begins the pull out of the plastic. Many of my grip modules now have this gap between the slide and the frame that wasn't present when the gun was brand new. I only use metal grip modules because that issue doesn't seem to be present so far.
@@daviddavis2658 have you found any all steel 365 modules?
Dam this is annoying to hear for someone who lives in a country where you can only own one firearm and I bought a sig at inflated prices…
Your automotive example reminds me of the Toyota Prius that had issues with the throttle getting stuck. That would be like them igniting it and blaming the driver- even though it happened to multiple people.
That’s a good point 👍
ignoring* it
Note- The NJ State Police sued SIG Sauer over "Classic" P229R 9x19mm. SIG blamed the training 9mm rounds. The State Troopers said the QC, P229s lacked the traditional quality of past P226s P229s.
The old P226/P229 are made in Germany. The new ones are made in USA.
A friend of my brother wanted to sell me his P320 at a firesale last year, really glad I passed. Considering trading out my P365 for something else.
The way I see it, this is not just a trust issue it’s endemic of these major corporations going overseas for cheap labor and parts rather than investing in America and to me that’s unforgivable.
The P365 is an entirely different design. You'll break trigger return springs every, 5000 or so rounds maybe but there's other guns that will do the same thing. Other than that, the P365 is a reliable gun.
@@Osprey1994oh for sure, I’ve had minimal issues with my P365, but see the second half of my comment for the explanation why I’m considering getting rid of it.
It's also a terribly designed handgun...
Nightwood is the only neutral youtuber I listen to.
I look at it like this: if there is a bowl of skittles in front of me, and I know that out of the hundreds in that bowl, a few of them are poisoned, I’m not taking the chance and eat any of them.
That’s a good analogy 👍
What they should have done is silently developed a new pistol, discontinue the P320, and then quietly settle any lawsuits for the next 10 years. By doing what they’re doing, they’re wading into very expensive waters.
P22x, P250, P938 all excellent choices. M-17&18 fine with safety. Sold my P320. Criterion is safe carry, safe clearing, etc. SAFETY even when you have nominal operator error.
Your assessment is 100% fair. I have a P320 X5 DH3 in my collection. Personally, I've never experienced a negligent discharge or out-of-battery discharge. I don't carry the weapon and don't keep it loaded when I am not shooting. It's a decently nice target pistol with an average trigger that feels nice in the hand. It's accurate. I also like Daniel Horner and, for that reason, decided to support the concept. However, the word "sloppy" is what comes to mind. My 320 frequently does not return to full battery with factory springs. This is a proven problem and not my imagination. I'm pretty sure Daniel Horner's P320 returns to full battery so mine should also (even if I can't shoot like him). As you pointed out in your video, we don't encounter these poor housekeeping issues with the PDP, M&P, etc. There's plenty of talented gunsmiths working at SIG. Can't imagine why these issues haven't been resolved.
I also have the 320 x five and also the same issue of it not returning to battery..!! AND . I also will not carry it.
My first pistol was a Glock G43X. I liked it, but I found it too difficult to conceal. I traded it for a S&W M&P Shield Plus. I had issues with the trigger safety not releasing on that gun. I sent it back to S&W and despite them "fixing" it, the issue persisted, so I sold it. That lead me to the SIG P365. It has been a great gun for me thus far, but I found I was shooting so many rounds through it that it was bruising my thumb. So to keep with a similar battery of arms, I bought a P320. I shoot both of them very well and haven't had any issues with them. But your comments are making me reconsider. I'm honestly not sure what else to go with at this point. I'd like both a full size and a compact pistol with the controls. Back to the drawing board, I guess. 😅
I have about 4000 rd through my P365XL. I have never had a functional issue with the pistol. That said I believe the people that have had issues. To your point of, “If you’re going to shoot tens of thousands of rounds through a P365, buy two”, I would agree, but frankly I would say the same about the M&Ps, Glocks, PDPs, Staccatos, etc that I own. If you’re shooting that much, you’re dwarfing the cost of the pistol in ammunition costs. Imo, it’s worth the peace of mind to have two pistols where one is a training pistol and one is shot to confirm function and then maintained regularly. It’s why I have 2 Glock 19s, both set up the same. While seemingly much more rare than with SIG, I’ve had and seen others have parts breakages with other pistols at relatively low round counts (I had the striker on one of my PDPs break at 1900 rd). Many years ago I read an article by the late Todd Green where he recommended the same 2 gun solution, even with classic line SIG hammer fired pistols, and it seemed like good advice.
365 is a completely different action and doesn’t share any of these issues
@ I’ve aware that the P365 is a different design. He specifically addresses both designs in this video.
I should’ve watched the whole vid before responding 😅
@@davidtadlock2238 no problem. I think there are a lot of people thinking about how the designs compare. The P320 is always going to be a bit of a kludge in that it’s a striker fired system put into a pistol that wasn’t designed for it originally.
@@davidtadlock2238yup as with most the world n it starts bs 😂💀
Just imagine just seeing all these Sig videos this week and you've been appendix carrying a P320 for years... 😅
(U.S. military have ample documentation that the P320 fired and injured some servicemen even with the thumb safety on and inside the holster.)
Because the cheap penny pinching government never lies😀
I don’t like that lately Sig seems to put out guns too early, leaving the first gen consumers to be the beta testers, and subsequently fixing them later. This happened with that 320 and 365.
I made my comment before the end of your video. Glad to hear you covered the 365 as well. There are too many other options that are reliable and don’t have these issues. I don’t think I’d ever trust one for an EDC. You even called us beta testers, too!
Great minds think alike 😅👍
I still appreciate Sigs from 20+ years ago made in germany, those were goodins
Absolutely. I had a P226 Sport Stock that had the best fit/finish I’ve ever felt.
1911's aren't drop safe, however, they have to land muzzle down which is a bit "safer" than the gun going "pop" while pointed in the general direction of the guy who dropped it. Titanium firing pins and stronger firing pin springs will mitigate this a bit, which is what Springfield did to their old Mil-spec guns (and probably still does) to make that distance about 12 ish ft instead of shoulder height. I'm sure most of the '70 series 2011's do similar.
I disagree with the P365 being plagued with issues, but the P320 definitely has an issue that Sig has not figured out.
P365 can break the trigger return spring, but it's not the only gun that can break that part inside of 5-10k rounds.
I worked at a range, and the P365 was one of the most popular guns. I knew 3 with 15k+, one with 24k, and he one I built went through 3.5k last year. I would tell anyone who is unsure about the P365, just buy a Shield + or G43X/48.
The big problem with the trigger bar spring breaking is that it renders the gun almost dead. You can flip it upside down and shake it and get the bar to catch and release the sear if you work at it. Contrast that to a Glock. If you break the spring in that almost nothing changes because the striker spring returns the trigger.
It's less about the P365 (which is arguably a vastly superior gun to the 320) being a turd...but the fact that it's linked to Sig, and they're absolute turds.
How could you say the P250 FAILED!
? It was just EXTREMELY unpopular. Great vid!
What’s next sig? Are you going to have Dylan Mulvaney sponsor the P320 in a bathtub?
Ha!
Well said sir! Said in my finest English accent
O MY GAWD SIG IS SPONSORING MY GENDER TRANSITION WITH THIS LIMITED EDITION P320 WITH MY FACE ON IT 💃💃💃💃💃 🎉🎉🎉🎉
My friends and I still won’t touch Budweiser products.Pbr sales are up
@@Mk16-bx3vi yessir, I used to be a data analyst for a miller/coors distributor in the redneck areas of Florida during the height of it. PBR jumped 20% in a month in our area and coors was up nearly 60%.
Bud was down 22% nationally, but that includes liberal cities- in red counties, it was down more like 60-70%, even with crazy sales and BOGOs
I own a sig P320 for over 4years now with 15,000 rounds and I have no doubt it's a safe, reliable and accurate pistol.
Can’t resolve an issue when you don’t believe there is one. Like trying to get an alcoholic help when they don’t believe they have a drinking problem. Lol
I'm not so sure they don't believe there is one. I think it's more about trying to avoid acknowledging it to keep themselves free to argue they're not liable in ongoing lawsuits or future ones.
Glock > Sig
Huge sig guy here. I own several p320s. But I landed at the same conclusion. No effin way will I appendix carry a p320. Too bad, such good shooters otherwise.
The US M17/18 has a manual safety for crying out loud. None of the negligent discharge crap should have anything to do with them if they are using their safeties. There are US soldiers that openly prefer it to the M9.
I have always been the camp of manual safeties for any single action trigger. If folks used manual safeties then there would not be any of these problems. But when you have folks carrying a single action pistol around in carry condition zero you are just asking for trouble no matter how safe you think you are or claim to be. Not even Jeff Cooper recommended carrying in carry condition zero. Carry condition zero is the problem. Not the guns. That is what I think and always have. If you are adamant and don't want a manual safety then get a double action being a double action/single action or double action only. I think it should be a gun industry standard that all single action only pistols both revolver and auto have manual safeties. If folks don't want to use them then that is on them to bear the liability. I am sick of folks always blaming the gun for their carry condition.
Note: The P320 used by law enforcement and civilians has no manual safety and is a single action striker pistol and these are where the majority of complaints come from. The military M17/18 version has a manual safety and the only complaints are from those troops not using the safety. Not even the folks of the old west carried their single action Army .45Colt revolvers cocked in their holsters but that is what they are doing today with these pre-cocked single action striker pistols.
I don't own a P320 but the nagging question is this, How many of these new discharges are from P320s that have not been upgraded since the initial trigger recall? Any hard numbers? The military M17/18 has a manual safety so the military has no excuse. This problem goes beyond the P320 and its now being brought out into the light of day. There are videos of Glocks going off in the pants when something snagged on the trigger so this is not a problem of just one manufacturer. The problem is the carry condition, not the gun. There are folks white washing a dangerous carry condition that is causing negligent discharges and blaming the gun. Same old, same old. A lot of folks are going to have to face some uncomfortable facts about how they carry their gun. Like I said, I am sick of folks blaming the gun no matter what brand it is for their carry condition. The liars and deniers will face the course of nature and nature will take its course.
Don't want to be a beta tester? HK is the answer
HKs are ugly asf tho other then the hk45
Really any competent firearms manufacturer is the answer. Sig is just not a competent, trustworthy, quality company.
You know it's bad news when a shooting range won't allow p320 on site
😂it's that really a thing? Wow if so!
The newer P365s generally exhibit a lot less striker drag along the primers, which indicates that Sig changed more than just the striker material. Probably some of the springs as well.
I still occasionally carry my P365 in the summer because it’s so concealable and has been 100% reliable through 700 or so rounds, but my main carry now is a Shield Plus.
They changed the shape of the tip of the striker to help with the drag.
@ The problem was that the striker tip was in contact with the primer while the cases were being ejected. I don’t see how a minor modification of the striker tip could’ve made that much of a difference.
Car reference brings to mind the Ford Pinto. They designed it with the gas tank and a place where if it was hit too hard from the rear it would explode.
I own a P365 AXG Legion, which has been totally solid and reliable. However, because of Sig's recent press releases concerning the P320, I will never purchase another Sig - ever.
Same situation and agree fully
Once again, another excellent video-thank you for continuing to share such valuable insight. Unlike you, I’m new to firearms and will be purchasing my first pistol in the next week or so.
Initially, I was encouraged to consider the SIG P320 by someone who carries one as a duty weapon. Given the nature of my profession, data and risk assessment are paramount, so I began researching the P320 extensively. It didn’t take long before I encountered numerous discussions about its potential for unintentional discharge. As a new gun owner, this was very concerning-not only for my personal safety but also for those around me. I’m committed to mitigating risk in all forms, and owning a firearm demands the highest level of responsibility.
More importantly, my wife has a deep-seated fear of guns due to a traumatic experience in her childhood-her father accidentally shot himself in the hip. She was hesitant about me owning a firearm to begin with, so it would be both careless and inconsiderate for me not to prioritize safety and reliability above all else. I never want to be in the position of hearing, “I told you so. I begged you not to get a gun.”
After months of research, I ultimately decided to purchase a Staccato C2. Unlike the P320, I found no credible concerns regarding unintentional discharges or reliability-only comments about its price point. My decision to go with the Staccato was made prior to watching your videos on the P320 and the Staccato P, but hearing your thoughts on both only reaffirmed my choice. Your insights served as the final reassurance, and I truly respect your perspective.
Thank you again for the content you provide. It has made a real impact on how I approach this important responsibility.
My dad has a P320 and we’ve had no issues. It’s mostly a range and home defense gun. I have mostly Smith & Wesson. M&p 2.0 metal, shield plus, and just added bodyguard 2.0. Along with my 442 I’m good.
You do understand how this works right? You have no issues until you do. In this case, that issue is your gun going off uncommanded and shooting yourself or someone else...and then you go to jail or the hospital. The fact you mentioned having it as a home-defense gun is even more alarming.
@@oskar66612.5 million sigs sold over 11 years
We estimate 100 cases of sigs going off, most were early, some are negligence, some valid. Regardless, your chance of your sig going off by itself based on the stats.
0.00004% Over the course of 11years and 2,500,000 pistols.
Your choice.
Love the channel man! I agree about the P320 but the P365 is completely different and doesn’t have any issues of “just going off.” I have 2 P365’s (XL and Spectre Comp) and I have had 0 issues with both through thousands of rounds. On the other hand, I’ve owned 2 Glocks (42 and 43X) and both of them had malfunctions. The 42 had to go back to Glock after nonstop malfunctions. Bottom line is, TEST YOUR FIREARM thoroughly before carrying it and trusting it with your life. Doesn’t matter the brand
On December 10th 2023 I rented a PDP, a VP9 and p320 AXG Legion. I just didn’t care for the PDP, I went wanting to love the VP9 but every 5 rounds it failed to eject, and I loved the AXG. Obviously it was the most expensive but I bought a new one and have around 3K rounds thru it without a single failure in any way no matter the ammo. After that I started daily carrying a xmacro comp with Icarus precision aluminum grip, have around 2k rounds and not a single issue. I hope I don’t lose my junk carrying appendix but I do all day everyday so I do trust it. I hate that anyone has had problems and I’m only one person but that’s my story.
Was it because the PDP has excessive muzzle flip?
The X-macro is good
@@gracedagostino5231 to be honest, I don’t remember exactly, I just didn’t shoot it as well as the VP9 and the AXG. I really do love the feel of the VP9 and I shot it well but I consistently had issues with the rental. Maybe I would’ve bought a new and never experienced it again, I still may get one some day. But the sig, for me, outperformed, felt the best and looked the pretty badass
@@tizben so far it’s great for what it is. I’m fast with it, it conceals so easy and I know I’ve got a ton of rounds if I ever need them. I do worry about longer term reliability because I do train with it hard
@@ShaneAJWoolf Yes could have just been the VP9 rental, because HK is usually very well made, and reliable. They don’t put out anything bad, as they test guns over and over before released. I have an HK P2000sk.
I owned a P365 and saw Protraband's video. That video was the tipping point for me to sell it and replaced it with a Beretta 92 GTS.
Good companies stand behind their products. Bad companies stand behind their lawyers.
I had one of the early P320’s (fixed for drop safety), but sold it recently because of the in-holster discharges. I’m usually with family when shooting and just didn’t want to chance it even though I’ve not had any issues with it. I still have a P365 that I plan on keeping, but have switched to S&W for nightstand and edc.
Traded my x-ten and 320xcarry legion and went full H&K USP 45, p30sk and VP9L
Hk fanboy
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Don't fret, I'm one too lol
Series 70 1911 u have to drop specifically square on the crown, any slight angle isn't enough inertia
And here I am coming from Ben Stoeger's channel just talking about this topic
I have a Sig 320 Spector Comp, a 365 and a 320 Compact. LOVE all three for different reasons. All of these are newer and "revised" to be safe? I've had ZERO issues with any of them and as I said, love them and the way they shoot. But, there is SO MUCH hate for sig now I'm somewhat embarrassed to mention them. Obviously I do NOT drop my guns, use exceptional-trusted holsters and am extremely gun safe. But...still...loosing sleep over this and have anxiety carrying them now. I feel they're safe but cant escape this. Really sucks!!!
Funny after they released that post, couple hours later they have a position open for their marketing....
SIG refused to admit there was a drop safe issue, then issued a fix for it. If there wasn't an issue, what did they fix? That's my problem with SIG. They have no credibility.
@@pewpewMBA Profit over people. They’d rather you be six feet under than lose a penny or admit a mistake.
Bullets going into the ground can still mean consequences. Ricochets and fragmenting of bullets is not a good thing and can still cause injury. Firing pin blocks, whether for striker fired or hammer fired pistols, were developed and exist for a reason. I still carry 2011s, but it’s a fact about the design that I don’t ignore and does make other guns more appealing to me in that regard.
Regarding bullets firing into the ground: I agree with Brett that it is much safer - as long as your not on a 2nd/3rd/etc floor lol. Like you're on a 2nd floor apartment and you drop your 2011 in the manner described. "Whoops! My bad! Sorry!" 😂
(I still carry my Bul 2011, just humorous to think about)
Bullets fired into the ground will come out in China and hurt someone.
Im glad I didnt get into the gun hobby until after Sig's disasterous P320 problem happened. Now ill never make the mistake of buying a sig.
Somewhere up in heaven the late great Paul Harrell is smiling down on Nightwood continuing the good work.
I own a West Germany built Sig P226, IMHO that was their pinnacle of craftsmanship. Also own 2 P229's. Excellent pistols with thousands of rounds through them. I also am a firearms instructor and CRSO, and while I've never had anyone in my presence have a 320 unintentionally discharge, I've seen too many people with "issues" with the 320, that I would not allow them on my range or for training.
Glad I was never a sig guy
I own two Sig pistols and are my least liked ones.
I work at a VA MC. One of our VA Police officers told me they were getting P 320s as their new issued firearm. I asked about the ND issues that the P320 has had and he told me (to his knowledge) those were first generation P 320s that were having those issues and the VA had purchased Gen 3 P 320s. IDK, I am a dozen steps below you in the expertise field so I'm just throwing out what I was told.
I have 2 Sig P320’s. I haven’t had any issues with them. Which I am very grateful, because I’ve carried them both.
I am currently selling both of my 320’s on consignment. Too much smoke not to have a fire, and Sig is handling this as if they want the nightmare to continue.
It’s good that you haven’t, but if it were me, I get rid of them and go with more proven platforms. Too many to choose from to stay with Sig.
Appendix carry?
You don't have issues until you do. Please, for your own safety, go watch Protraband's video.
me over here in california owning a p320 equinox I paid 2x for :( but yeah as a huge fan of the 226 the 320 isn't even close.
I agree with you 100%, I have 2 early production p320s (p320 Compact & p320 Sub Compact). Both were sent back to Sig for the "voluntary upgrade". I've not had any problems with either gun, but I don't trust them. They are locked in my safe and there they will stay.
In watching "Sig Mechanics" with Edmond narrating, I can see the extremely close tolerances with these parts crammed into a very small small space (Sig used the p250 instead of starting with a "clean sheet").
Yep, p220, p226, p229, p210 and the Sig 322 (22 LR)...got 'em & love shooting them. But I carry a Glock model 26 & Glock model 45. I'm recalling Chuck Taylor's multi decade review\torture of a Glock 17 or 19. Chuck has passed away, but the last round count was some where around 300,000 rounds with every "malfunction" explained and every part exchange explained. I think he wrote for Gun World. Look up Chuck Taylor Glock Torture Test and go from there.
Friends don't let friends buy Sig's.
I never really liked how my P365 & XL shot, but it felt great in my hand. The CZ P-10 is another story, my new carry pistol.
Sold all my Sigs and went to Glocks. Main squeeze is the 19 COA.
They shouldve said. People trying to devalue your sig collection. Instead of anti gun groups. Thats been the resistance.
People who thought they were gi Joe and bought sig. Instead of colt
Never liked the p320, you couldn't give me one. The p229, 226, 220 are excellent and are the only ones I trust. Sig is not the great company it once was and that's a shame.
German and American Sig are very different.
The American p22X guns are good, arguably much more durable than the older German folded slides for sure. They just tried to save too much money by forgoing test firing that would identify “from birth” issues. Some of the mim parts can be meh but mostly hold up great as well
Great analysis and critical thinking. We all need to be asking the question “Why arent we see this happen at a similar rate with other similar brands of pistols?”
Because the 320 was a sketchy ass rush job of a pistol design, modifying a P250 into something new...by a sketchy company cutting every corner possible.
I am pretty invested in the p365 multiple holsters tons of magazines I think I am going to stay with the p365 family. I am 75% sure I am buying a fuse although I am also going to test drive a Smith & Wesson
First, I appreciate you mentioning Glock grenading. Most people will not mention Glock + negative and try to act as if the exploding barrels and other issues they've had never happened.
Absolutely. It 100% happened and it was 100% not okay.
Glock leg too. Everybody ignores that.
iT EnDs tOdAY
It did, in fact, not end today...
Thinking about dumping my 365xl for a HK cc9 not bc i dont trust it but bc how sig is choosing to handle the p320 situation on social media.
I was skeptical for the longest time until an experienced competitor had a discharge during a match.. at the command “shooter ready?!” Then a bang… lol. The320 was just sitting there in a competition holster competition holster with no hands on it.
It happened again at next match.. same shooter. Not sure exactly the story, but probably the same. I’m now convinced. No Sig Striker fired for me.
Ah yes a heavily modified p320 with an aftermarket trigger and internal springs. Great source for a AD. Lmao
@@PTSD_Karma also happened to military 320s with the safety on. So...
@ at yes the government. Because they are so trustworthy. And let’s be real I’ve heard from MANY military people that they aren’t exactly proficient with a pistol. It’s user error. Try again.
@@PTSD_Karma So, I'm assuming you haven't watched the Protraband video...got it...(news flash, it contains a dozen videos of 320's going off in peoples holsters...)
@@oskar6661the guy that was awarded 11m says he pulled the trigger while holstering his P320 into his sweatpants. It's literally in the lawsuit documents. The other police officer admitted he pulled the trigger and others admit the still use the 6300 safariland holster which is NOT made for the P320. The lady's P320 was holstered in her purse and her keys set the firearm off as it slide into the under side of the trigger guard on the holster. Most of these discharged are officers that don't train. My neighbor is a LEO and he even told me most LEOs don't even train with their Glock or P320s. He told me they can't hit shit past 10 yards.
Sig was once great, but they are a dangerous, dishonest company. No one should be ok with how they keep releasing guns with known safety issues.
Yup traded in my p365 and went back to the 43x mos. Great choice …
Bought a p365 fuse. Great choice
P365 didn’t have the same “issue” as the p320🤡🤡🤡🤡
@ actually! They did just not as many cases ,yes they were firing themselves too. Anyway troll on ….
@@BrandonD no they weren’t lmaooo they had striker issues lmaoo. You’re an idiot.
I sold my p320 .40 last year and got a CZ do no regret lol. I love my 226 and 229 but thats the line for me. Sig needs to design a brand new polymer full size.